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Big Rumor Part 2, Manny trade.
DaMook
post Jul 30 2005, 11:59 AM
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1510 (AM) reports that the teams have extended the self-imposed deadline after making significant progress on the financial aspect of the proposed deal. The Red Sox are now apparently willing to take nothing more than Mike Cameron and Aubrey Huff, provided that the Mets assume 100% of Manny's remaining salary, and that the Red Sox give up one prospect (Anibal Sanchez) instead of two.


--------------------
The Mook Theorem
Higher OBP = More chances to score runs = More runs will score.

"What is an error? It is, without exception, the only major statistic in sports which is a
record of what an observer thinks should have been accomplished." - Bill James

At Baseball Prospectus, we often reiterate the point that RBIs are an inferior
measure of production, because they are more closely tied to lineup context than hitting skill.

I trust algorithms. Trillions of dollars are invested based on them. Nuclear bombs are tested through them. They can choose a freaking lineup. - ils4O1
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NYMIBLV
post Jul 30 2005, 12:01 PM
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doo it...

manny and baez fill 2 major holes
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rossie6782
post Jul 30 2005, 12:03 PM
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QUOTE(NYMIBLV @ Jul 30 2005, 01:01 PM)
doo it...

manny and baez fill 2 major holes
[right][snapback]181148[/snapback][/right]



Baez won't be worth much of anything here.

Now, Manny on the other hand, is worth it, atleast imo.


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Hoovbacca
post Jul 30 2005, 12:05 PM
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QUOTE(rossie6782 @ Jul 30 2005, 10:03 AM)
Baez won't be worth much of anything here.

Now, Manny on the other hand, is worth it, atleast imo.
[right][snapback]181151[/snapback][/right]



i would much rather we got Huff and the BoSox got Baez....that would sell me on it in an instant, even giving up Petit and Milledge.


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IamTheIan
post Jul 30 2005, 12:06 PM
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QUOTE(DaMook @ Jul 30 2005, 12:59 PM)
1510 (AM) reports that the teams have extended the self-imposed deadline after making significant progress on the financial aspect of the proposed deal. The Red Sox are now apparently willing to take nothing more than Mike Cameron and Aubrey Huff, provided that the Mets assume 100% of Manny's remaining salary, and that the Red Sox give up one prospect (Anibal Sanchez) instead of two.
[right][snapback]181145[/snapback][/right]


I don't care how many prospects the Red Sox give up! I don't want Petit and Milledge gone!


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MichMar68
post Jul 30 2005, 12:08 PM
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QUOTE(DaMook @ Jul 30 2005, 12:59 PM)
1510 (AM) reports that the teams have extended the self-imposed deadline after making significant progress on the financial aspect of the proposed deal. The Red Sox are now apparently willing to take nothing more than Mike Cameron and Aubrey Huff, provided that the Mets assume 100% of Manny's remaining salary, and that the Red Sox give up one prospect (Anibal Sanchez) instead of two.
[right][snapback]181145[/snapback][/right]



Well that's very good news..I fell asleep last night with my fingers crossed...


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DaMook
post Jul 30 2005, 12:08 PM
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QUOTE(Hoovbacca @ Jul 30 2005, 01:05 PM)
i would much rather we got Huff and the BoSox got Baez....that would sell me on it in an instant, even giving up Petit and Milledge.
jb
[right][snapback]181152[/snapback][/right]


Me too. That would make me say this trade if fair. Right now, I dont hate it but Im still 50/50 on it.


--------------------
The Mook Theorem
Higher OBP = More chances to score runs = More runs will score.

"What is an error? It is, without exception, the only major statistic in sports which is a
record of what an observer thinks should have been accomplished." - Bill James

At Baseball Prospectus, we often reiterate the point that RBIs are an inferior
measure of production, because they are more closely tied to lineup context than hitting skill.

I trust algorithms. Trillions of dollars are invested based on them. Nuclear bombs are tested through them. They can choose a freaking lineup. - ils4O1
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MichMar68
post Jul 30 2005, 12:10 PM
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QUOTE(DaMook @ Jul 30 2005, 01:08 PM)
Me too. That would make me say this trade if fair. Right now, I dont hate it but Im still 50/50 on it.
[right][snapback]181155[/snapback][/right]



There has been so much on this trade I don't even know what we're giving up anymore. All I do know is that we're getting Manny...


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Truefan79
post Jul 30 2005, 12:10 PM
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QUOTE(DaMook @ Jul 30 2005, 01:08 PM)
Me too. That would make me say this trade if fair. Right now, I dont hate it but Im still 50/50 on it.
[right][snapback]181155[/snapback][/right]


I would be alot less upset about trading Milledge if the Mets got Huff and Ramirez.


--------------------
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-mvr 7/2/12
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greenday86
post Jul 30 2005, 12:14 PM
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UPDATE!

The proposed three-team trade involving the Red Sox, New York Mets and Tampa Bay Devil Rays -- with Boston outfielder Manny Ramirez at the heart of it -- is still alive and still being discussed, baseball sources said Saturday.

The proposal took on a different shape late Friday into Saturday, however.

Manny Ramirez
Ramirez

The Red Sox would acquire Mets outfielder Mike Cameron and pitcher Aaron Heilman, and Devil Rays outfielder/designated hitter Aubrey Huff; the Mets would get Ramirez, reliever Danys Baez and shortstop Julio Lugo; and the Devil Rays would still get four prospects, but the prospects are being reconsidered.

An official with one of the three teams told ESPN.com that the Mets never walked away from the deal Friday night over money. Rather, it was over their reluctance to let go of Lastings Milledge, one of their top prospects. Saturday, however, the Mets have softened on that stance.

If Milledge is still included in the current proposal, Red Sox prospect Hanley Ramirez gets thrown into the mix. Milledge would potentially go to the Red Sox, and Ramirez would get shipped to Tampa Bay.

Meanwhile, the Toronto Blue Jays have talked to the Red Sox as well and made an "inquisitive call" about Manny Ramirez, sources said.

Late Friday, the Red Sox, Mets and Devil Rays had decided that if they couldn't get a deal patched by noon Saturday, they would have no choice but to move on, an executive with one of the teams said late Friday night. Major League Baseball's trade deadline is 4 p.m. ET on Sunday.

"If there are any complications involving Manny's contract, or any financial ramifications [such as luxury tax or deferral issues, they] would require the approval of the commissioner's office," the executive said. "So this is not the kind of deal you can do at 3:59 p.m. Sunday."

Given that deadline, the executive said, "it's looking like it's not going to happen. Time's just running out. At some point it just becomes too late."

According to a baseball official familiar with the discussions, the proposed trade "hit a roadblock" late Friday.

In addition to the initial proposal of Ramirez and Baez being sent to the Mets, the Red Sox would acquire Huff and Cameron, and the Devil Rays receiving two prospects apiece from New York and Boston.

But a source said the Red Sox felt they could not go ahead with trading Ramirez and two prime prospects -- reportedly catcher Kelly Shoppach and right-hander Anibal Sanchez -- if all they were receiving was Cameron and Huff. So they went back to the Mets "for more pieces," the source reported.

At that point, the Mets "squashed the whole thing" and talks broke off. A baseball man with knowledge of the discussions said the Red Sox asked the Mets for a "key player," whom the Mets felt they couldn't trade. It is believed that Milledge was this player.

An official of another club that spoke with the Mets on Friday night said the Mets also had reservations about going ahead with the deal because they would have had to assume all $64 million of Ramirez's contract, and that would have put them both over budget and over the luxury-tax threshold.

Senior writer Jayson Stark covers Major League Baseball for ESPN.com.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2120374


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DaMook
post Jul 30 2005, 12:16 PM
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QUOTE(Truefan79 @ Jul 30 2005, 01:10 PM)
I would be alot less upset about trading Milledge if the Mets got Huff and Ramirez.
[right][snapback]181157[/snapback][/right]


Definitely. Huff would be more of a value than a reliever and he can get back to 2003 form then it would be a steal. If Omar were smart he would try and get Huff and send Baez to Boston. The thing is Theo is way smarter than Omar and actually knows how to evaluate players. I would kill for Theo and Bill James to run the Mets.


--------------------
The Mook Theorem
Higher OBP = More chances to score runs = More runs will score.

"What is an error? It is, without exception, the only major statistic in sports which is a
record of what an observer thinks should have been accomplished." - Bill James

At Baseball Prospectus, we often reiterate the point that RBIs are an inferior
measure of production, because they are more closely tied to lineup context than hitting skill.

I trust algorithms. Trillions of dollars are invested based on them. Nuclear bombs are tested through them. They can choose a freaking lineup. - ils4O1
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rossie6782
post Jul 30 2005, 12:16 PM
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QUOTE(greenday86 @ Jul 30 2005, 01:14 PM)
UPDATE!

The proposed three-team trade involving the Red Sox, New York Mets and Tampa Bay Devil Rays -- with Boston outfielder Manny Ramirez at the heart of it -- is still alive and still being discussed, baseball sources said Saturday.

The proposal took on a different shape late Friday into Saturday, however.

Manny Ramirez
Ramirez

The Red Sox would acquire Mets outfielder Mike Cameron and pitcher Aaron Heilman, and Devil Rays outfielder/designated hitter Aubrey Huff; the Mets would get Ramirez, reliever Danys Baez and shortstop Julio Lugo; and the Devil Rays would still get four prospects, but the prospects are being reconsidered.

An official with one of the three teams told ESPN.com that the Mets never walked away from the deal Friday night over money. Rather, it was over their reluctance to let go of Lastings Milledge, one of their top prospects. Saturday, however, the Mets have softened on that stance.

If Milledge is still included in the current proposal, Red Sox prospect Hanley Ramirez gets thrown into the mix. Milledge would potentially go to the Red Sox, and Ramirez would get shipped to Tampa Bay.

Meanwhile, the Toronto Blue Jays have talked to the Red Sox as well and made an "inquisitive call" about Manny Ramirez, sources said.

Late Friday, the Red Sox, Mets and Devil Rays had decided that if they couldn't get a deal patched by noon Saturday, they would have no choice but to move on, an executive with one of the teams said late Friday night. Major League Baseball's trade deadline is 4 p.m. ET on Sunday.

"If there are any complications involving Manny's contract, or any financial ramifications [such as luxury tax or deferral issues, they] would require the approval of the commissioner's office," the executive said. "So this is not the kind of deal you can do at 3:59 p.m. Sunday."

Given that deadline, the executive said, "it's looking like it's not going to happen. Time's just running out. At some point it just becomes too late."

According to a baseball official familiar with the discussions, the proposed trade "hit a roadblock" late Friday.

In addition to the initial proposal of Ramirez and Baez being sent to the Mets, the Red Sox would acquire Huff and Cameron, and the Devil Rays receiving two prospects apiece from New York and Boston.

But a source said the Red Sox felt they could not go ahead with trading Ramirez and two prime prospects -- reportedly catcher Kelly Shoppach and right-hander Anibal Sanchez -- if all they were receiving was Cameron and Huff. So they went back to the Mets "for more pieces," the source reported.

At that point, the Mets "squashed the whole thing" and talks broke off. A baseball man with knowledge of the discussions said the Red Sox asked the Mets for a "key player," whom the Mets felt they couldn't trade. It is believed that Milledge was this player.

An official of another club that spoke with the Mets on Friday night said the Mets also had reservations about going ahead with the deal because they would have had to assume all $64 million of Ramirez's contract, and that would have put them both over budget and over the luxury-tax threshold.

Senior writer Jayson Stark covers Major League Baseball for ESPN.com.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2120374
[right][snapback]181159[/snapback][/right]



that trade proposal sucks for the mets, simple as that.


--------------------
Scott


Scars are souvenirs you never lose
The past is never far
Did you lose yourself somewhere out there
Did you get to be a star
And don't it make you sad to know that life
Is more than who we are




RIP "Freddy Coupon."
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TrainDawg2004
post Jul 30 2005, 12:17 PM
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Guys I don't see Chuck LaMar doing this, I think he wants prospects from Boston, and with the rumors of Shoppach dealt for Bigibe, LaMar could say "We want more prospects." LaMar could be the one who screws the deal up.


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NYMIBLV
post Jul 30 2005, 12:18 PM
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just like it said...time may just run out on this...

so if its going to happen the decision has to be made and fast...

in the foreseeable future i love this trade...but long term im not so sure...

if omar really believes with these additions the mets can make a serious playoff surge then i say pull the trigger...you simply just cannot play for tommorow...if the mets believe they have a contender this year with the right pieces in place by all means do it...

the future is now...
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TrainDawg2004
post Jul 30 2005, 12:19 PM
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Lugo would give us some big SBs.


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Tabes
post Jul 30 2005, 12:19 PM
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betterNYgm-

I stand by what I said before. This deal makes NO sense.

I'm glad someone else is with me on this.

Is it so hard for the Mets to go after a fundamentally sound baseball player in a position that actually needs upgrading??


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rossie6782
post Jul 30 2005, 12:19 PM
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QUOTE(NYMIBLV @ Jul 30 2005, 01:18 PM)
just like it said...time may just run out on this...

so if its going to happen the decision has to be made and fast...

in the foreseeable future i love this trade...but long term im not so sure...

if omar really believes with these additions the mets can make a serious playoff surge then i say pull the trigger...you simply just cannot play for tommorow...if the mets believe they have a contender this year with the right pieces in place by all means do it...

the future is now...
[right][snapback]181165[/snapback][/right]



its that thinking that has torn this franchise apart over the last couple years. This ISN'T a win now team. Not enough epeices.


--------------------
Scott


Scars are souvenirs you never lose
The past is never far
Did you lose yourself somewhere out there
Did you get to be a star
And don't it make you sad to know that life
Is more than who we are




RIP "Freddy Coupon."
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betterNYgm
post Jul 30 2005, 12:20 PM
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Another guy I dont want to see in any uniform but a Mets uniform is Aaron Heilman. The guy has shown a lot of heart, dealing with being put down so many times for not being as billed, but Peterson has been able to make him more effective and he has been great. I personally think that he will be a great player, even an all-star, one day in the not too distant future. Kepp this guy and ship off Hernandez or Looper. Keep Milledge too. Petit can go cause we have other top SP prospects, but we only have 1 Lastings Milledge.


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I REALLY wish I could have Lastings Milledge be in that picture... Too bad he is gone, too. THANKS, OMAR!
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rossie6782
post Jul 30 2005, 12:20 PM
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QUOTE(Tabes @ Jul 30 2005, 01:19 PM)

Is it so hard for the Mets to go after a fundamentally sound baseball player in a position that actually needs upgrading??
[right][snapback]181167[/snapback][/right]


indeed


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Scott


Scars are souvenirs you never lose
The past is never far
Did you lose yourself somewhere out there
Did you get to be a star
And don't it make you sad to know that life
Is more than who we are




RIP "Freddy Coupon."
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Truefan79
post Jul 30 2005, 12:20 PM
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Trades not going to happen and WTH would the Mets want with Julio Lugo?


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MichMar68
post Jul 30 2005, 12:21 PM
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I'd still rather give up Petit than Milledge but ahh I hope they just make a decision already...I can't take the suspense...


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betterNYgm
post Jul 30 2005, 12:21 PM
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QUOTE(TrainDawg2004 @ Jul 30 2005, 01:19 PM)
Lugo would give us some big SBs.
[right][snapback]181166[/snapback][/right]

From the bench. He just plain isn't good. Plus we have Matsui and his contract to deal with.


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YA GOTTA BELIEVE!

I REALLY wish I could have Lastings Milledge be in that picture... Too bad he is gone, too. THANKS, OMAR!
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Truefan79
post Jul 30 2005, 12:21 PM
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QUOTE(Tabes @ Jul 30 2005, 01:19 PM)
betterNYgm-

I stand by what I said before. This deal makes NO sense.

I'm glad someone else is with me on this.

Is it so hard for the Mets to go after a fundamentally sound baseball player in a position that actually needs upgrading??
[right][snapback]181167[/snapback][/right]


I am to, where the hell were you and GM last night when I was getting quadruple teamed! laugh.gif


--------------------
People ask me what I do in winter when thereís no baseball. Iíll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.

- Rogers Hornsby

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Trading specs for Santana would be a disaster, just ask the Twins.

-mvr 7/2/12
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rossie6782
post Jul 30 2005, 12:21 PM
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QUOTE(betterNYgm @ Jul 30 2005, 01:21 PM)
From the bench.  He just plain isn't good.  Plus we have Matsui and his contract to deal with.
[right][snapback]181173[/snapback][/right]


Good bye reyes, LOL


--------------------
Scott


Scars are souvenirs you never lose
The past is never far
Did you lose yourself somewhere out there
Did you get to be a star
And don't it make you sad to know that life
Is more than who we are




RIP "Freddy Coupon."
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DaMook
post Jul 30 2005, 12:22 PM
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QUOTE(greenday86 @ Jul 30 2005, 01:14 PM)
UPDATE!

The proposed three-team trade involving the Red Sox, New York Mets and Tampa Bay Devil Rays -- with Boston outfielder Manny Ramirez at the heart of it -- is still alive and still being discussed, baseball sources said Saturday.

The proposal took on a different shape late Friday into Saturday, however.

Manny Ramirez
Ramirez

The Red Sox would acquire Mets outfielder Mike Cameron and pitcher Aaron Heilman, and Devil Rays outfielder/designated hitter Aubrey Huff; the Mets would get Ramirez, reliever Danys Baez and shortstop Julio Lugo; and the Devil Rays would still get four prospects, but the prospects are being reconsidered.

An official with one of the three teams told ESPN.com that the Mets never walked away from the deal Friday night over money. Rather, it was over their reluctance to let go of Lastings Milledge, one of their top prospects. Saturday, however, the Mets have softened on that stance.

If Milledge is still included in the current proposal, Red Sox prospect Hanley Ramirez gets thrown into the mix. Milledge would potentially go to the Red Sox, and Ramirez would get shipped to Tampa Bay.

Meanwhile, the Toronto Blue Jays have talked to the Red Sox as well and made an "inquisitive call" about Manny Ramirez, sources said.

Late Friday, the Red Sox, Mets and Devil Rays had decided that if they couldn't get a deal patched by noon Saturday, they would have no choice but to move on, an executive with one of the teams said late Friday night. Major League Baseball's trade deadline is 4 p.m. ET on Sunday.

"If there are any complications involving Manny's contract, or any financial ramifications [such as luxury tax or deferral issues, they] would require the approval of the commissioner's office," the executive said. "So this is not the kind of deal you can do at 3:59 p.m. Sunday."

Given that deadline, the executive said, "it's looking like it's not going to happen. Time's just running out. At some point it just becomes too late."

According to a baseball official familiar with the discussions, the proposed trade "hit a roadblock" late Friday.

In addition to the initial proposal of Ramirez and Baez being sent to the Mets, the Red Sox would acquire Huff and Cameron, and the Devil Rays receiving two prospects apiece from New York and Boston.

But a source said the Red Sox felt they could not go ahead with trading Ramirez and two prime prospects -- reportedly catcher Kelly Shoppach and right-hander Anibal Sanchez -- if all they were receiving was Cameron and Huff. So they went back to the Mets "for more pieces," the source reported.

At that point, the Mets "squashed the whole thing" and talks broke off. A baseball man with knowledge of the discussions said the Red Sox asked the Mets for a "key player," whom the Mets felt they couldn't trade. It is believed that Milledge was this player.

An official of another club that spoke with the Mets on Friday night said the Mets also had reservations about going ahead with the deal because they would have had to assume all $64 million of Ramirez's contract, and that would have put them both over budget and over the luxury-tax threshold.

Senior writer Jayson Stark covers Major League Baseball for ESPN.com.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2120374
[right][snapback]181159[/snapback][/right]


Lugo is very interesting and now that Heilman might be in it that means either Milledge or Petit is out which is better.


--------------------
The Mook Theorem
Higher OBP = More chances to score runs = More runs will score.

"What is an error? It is, without exception, the only major statistic in sports which is a
record of what an observer thinks should have been accomplished." - Bill James

At Baseball Prospectus, we often reiterate the point that RBIs are an inferior
measure of production, because they are more closely tied to lineup context than hitting skill.

I trust algorithms. Trillions of dollars are invested based on them. Nuclear bombs are tested through them. They can choose a freaking lineup. - ils4O1
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betterNYgm
post Jul 30 2005, 12:23 PM
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QUOTE(Truefan79 @ Jul 30 2005, 01:21 PM)
I am to, where the hell were you and GM last night when I was getting quadruple teamed!  laugh.gif
[right][snapback]181174[/snapback][/right]

HEY! I was here siding with you, sorta. I have been saying this deal is dumb from the get go.


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YA GOTTA BELIEVE!

I REALLY wish I could have Lastings Milledge be in that picture... Too bad he is gone, too. THANKS, OMAR!
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TrainDawg2004
post Jul 30 2005, 12:23 PM
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I am hoping Milledge...


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IPB ImageIPB Image

Time for hockey season... IPB Image
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Truefan79
post Jul 30 2005, 12:24 PM
Post #28


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QUOTE(betterNYgm @ Jul 30 2005, 01:23 PM)
HEY! I was here siding with you, sorta.  I have been saying this deal is dumb from the get go.
[right][snapback]181177[/snapback][/right]


Yeah you ran and hid while the wolves came after me! mad.gif


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People ask me what I do in winter when thereís no baseball. Iíll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.

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Trading specs for Santana would be a disaster, just ask the Twins.

-mvr 7/2/12
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betterNYgm
post Jul 30 2005, 12:24 PM
Post #29


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QUOTE(Truefan79 @ Jul 30 2005, 01:24 PM)
Yeah you ran and hid while the wolves came after me!  mad.gif
[right][snapback]181179[/snapback][/right]

I hid nowhere. I just made exceptionally long posts.


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YA GOTTA BELIEVE!

I REALLY wish I could have Lastings Milledge be in that picture... Too bad he is gone, too. THANKS, OMAR!
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MichMar68
post Jul 30 2005, 12:25 PM
Post #30


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QUOTE
The Mets have talked to the Pirates about a deal for Jose Mesa and Daryle Ward for prospects that could include Mike Jacobs and reliever Matt Lindstrom.
The Pirates would likely give up Ward cheap. Getting Mesa would be more complicated, given his no-trade clause and his probable demand for an extension to waive it. Jul. 30 - 1:20 pm et



Still don't understand this at all...


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