IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1969 Game 5 Shoe Polish Incident
NigelIsConfused
post Aug 24 2006, 05:10 PM
Post #1


Superstar
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 3,808
Joined: 27-April 05
Member No.: 590



I once went on a long diatribe about my misgivings on whether 1969 deserves an asterix if, in fact, Hodges lied about Jones getting HBP (I concluded that it doesn't, but I'm still not thrilled about it.) Here's my real question, though. Does anyone have any link or source as to whether Cleon Jones has ever discussed the incident? I can't find anything at all.

The incident, which is also mentioned in Golenbock's "AMAZING" is summarized in an interview Jerry Koosman gave, which is quoted below, link provided:

ML: Let me just break away from the Sox for a moment because you were on that 1969 Mets club that shocked the baseball world. A lot of fans thought that was a fluke, but you were telling me about a little ‘gamesmenship’ that the Mets pulled off with the Cleon Jones hit by pitch incident. (Author’s Note: In the 6th inning of Game #5 with the Orioles leading 3-0, umpires awarded Cleon Jones first base saying he was hit on the foot by a pitch. Donn Clendenon then homered bringing the Mets back to 3-2 in a game they’d go on to win 5-3, with Koosman pitching, winning the series.)

JK: "That baseball never hit Jones. The pitch bounced in the dirt and rolled into our dugout. Immediately Gil Hodges (Author’s Note: The Mets manager) told me to pick up the ball and rub it on my shoe. I did and put a black shoe polish mark on it. Hodges in a split second grabbed the ball and ran out to the umpires arguing that the ball hit Jones and here was the mark to prove it. He sold the umpires on it, they gave Jones first base and that was a big play!. Some people call that cheating but that kind of stuff went on all the time in baseball. There were times when Hodges, if I wasn’t pitching, would tell me to go around the ballpark and see if anybody was in the outfield or the scoreboard spying in to steal signs."


http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/in...=11&id=2370

P.S. - One other source I read also noted that film review also revealed that in the same game Frank Robinson was hit by a pitch (the ump blew the call - said it hit his bat than him, but today its universally agreed the ump was mistaken. Both incidents of this type support [imho] instant replay, though I don't believe it should be used for balls-and-strikes.


PPS - In my view, Koosman may be correct that this sort of thing happened all the time, but I think the analogy he gives (stealing signs) is wildly off point. Its one thing to tip the batter about the pitch that is coming, and another to (if Jerry is to be believed, which I'm not sure he should be) doctor a ball if you positively know it didn't hit the batter at all. But I don't mean to repeat my views on this subject - - I am just interested in determining if anyone other than Koosman confirms his version. Strikes me as a hell of an admission.





--------------------
I loved baseball ever since Arnold Rothstein fixed the World Series in 1919.

Lee Strassberg as Hyman Roth - - The Godfather: Part II



IPB Image

IPB Image
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
metzol
post Aug 24 2006, 06:57 PM
Post #2


Legend
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 10,000
Joined: 29-June 04
From: South Orange, NJ
Member No.: 370



Didn't we have this discussion a few monthes back? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)


--------------------

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NigelIsConfused
post Aug 24 2006, 09:23 PM
Post #3


Superstar
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 3,808
Joined: 27-April 05
Member No.: 590



QUOTE(metzol @ Aug 24 2006, 07:57 PM) [snapback]304367[/snapback]

Didn't we have this discussion a few monthes back? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)



Yes, we did. But, while this was unquestionably an exercise on my part in re-run procrastination of some document I didn't wanna read or write, having seen FREQUENCY 2 weeks ago, it did remind me of the incident, and I had been meaning to ask whether anyone actually knows if Jones (not Koosman) ever actually spoke of the incident.


--------------------
I loved baseball ever since Arnold Rothstein fixed the World Series in 1919.

Lee Strassberg as Hyman Roth - - The Godfather: Part II



IPB Image

IPB Image
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 18th January 2018 - 02:52 PM