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david wright out of lineup tonight
Cactus
post Apr 10 2012, 05:23 PM
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bruised pinkie finger


--------------------
'-|-'

- "Mr. Jeff Wilpon has decided that he’s going to learn how to run a baseball team and take over at the end of the year… Run for the hills, boys. I think probably all those baseball people will bail… Jeff sits there by himself like he’s King Tut waiting for his camel.” - Nelson Doubleday
- "In today's regulatory environment, it's virtually impossible to violate rules." - Bernard Madoff, 10/20/07
The Washington Post decided not to cover Ralph Nader's presidential campaign because he had no chance of winning. Nader's response: "Then why are you covering the Nationals?"
- Asked by the Post about the younger Wilpon's job performance, Fred Wilpon said: "Excellent. Everybody knows ...that."
- "The word 'autonomy' is sometimes misused." - Jeff Wilpon
- "Let’s give Jeff Wilpon the benefit of the doubt here for a moment. Let’s say he is not short-tempered. Tone deaf. A credit seeker. An accountability deflector. A micro-manager. A second-guesser. A less-than-deep thinker. And bad at self-awareness. Fine, he’s none of these things. But here is the problem: This is his perception in the industry." - Joel Sherman
- “Jeff is the problem with the organization, and he is never going to realize that. He cannot help himself. He has to be involved. He will never hire anyone who will not let him have major input. He will not hire anyone who does not run every personnel decision through him.” - Anonymous NL Executive
- "The only person with a worse reputation than Jeff Wilpon in the game is David Samson." - Anonymous AL executive
- "[Mets GM Omar Minaya] isn’t the General Manager. Jeff Wilpon is. Omar’s the one out there to take the heat.” - Peter Gammons
- [Jeff Wilpon's] role in management, according to one official who worked for him, "is to act as president and CEO of second-guessing."
- "I always want Mets fans on my juries," said one noted defense attorney friend, a rabid Yankees fan. "They love losers, even three-time losers like some of my clients. And if Mets fans believe anything the Mets front office says, I can convince them to acquit anybody." - Denis Hamill
- I got a call the other day. They noted I had been a long term season ticket holder and asked if I was interested. I immediately exclaimed "I'm so sorry for the Wilpon Family". He asked what I meant. I told the guy if he looked in my file, he'd see a note to call me after both Fred and Jeff dropped dead, and not a day before. - Meanballer
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RayL
post Apr 11 2012, 06:26 PM
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Well we're back to normal..... that didn't take long.
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Truefan79
post Apr 12 2012, 09:16 AM
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QUOTE (RayL @ Apr 11 2012, 08:26 PM) *
Well we're back to normal..... that didn't take long.


It's not that surprising. The offense wasn't good against Atlanta and it's not like our guys will continue pitching to one of the lowest ERA's in baseball. Many people thought the Mets are a .500 team or less. 4 wins wasn't going to change that.


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Batman Forever
post Apr 12 2012, 10:36 AM
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QUOTE (Truefan79 @ Apr 12 2012, 09:16 AM) *
It's not that surprising. The offense wasn't good against Atlanta and it's not like our guys will continue pitching to one of the lowest ERA's in baseball. Many people thought the Mets are a .500 team or less. 4 wins wasn't going to change that.


Lets take out Philly this weekend!
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Cactus
post Apr 12 2012, 10:59 AM
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QUOTE (Batman Forever @ Apr 12 2012, 10:36 AM) *
Lets take out Philly this weekend!


if only they could send in a team to philly that's not decimated due to the owner's greed and stupidity.


--------------------
'-|-'

- "Mr. Jeff Wilpon has decided that he’s going to learn how to run a baseball team and take over at the end of the year… Run for the hills, boys. I think probably all those baseball people will bail… Jeff sits there by himself like he’s King Tut waiting for his camel.” - Nelson Doubleday
- "In today's regulatory environment, it's virtually impossible to violate rules." - Bernard Madoff, 10/20/07
The Washington Post decided not to cover Ralph Nader's presidential campaign because he had no chance of winning. Nader's response: "Then why are you covering the Nationals?"
- Asked by the Post about the younger Wilpon's job performance, Fred Wilpon said: "Excellent. Everybody knows ...that."
- "The word 'autonomy' is sometimes misused." - Jeff Wilpon
- "Let’s give Jeff Wilpon the benefit of the doubt here for a moment. Let’s say he is not short-tempered. Tone deaf. A credit seeker. An accountability deflector. A micro-manager. A second-guesser. A less-than-deep thinker. And bad at self-awareness. Fine, he’s none of these things. But here is the problem: This is his perception in the industry." - Joel Sherman
- “Jeff is the problem with the organization, and he is never going to realize that. He cannot help himself. He has to be involved. He will never hire anyone who will not let him have major input. He will not hire anyone who does not run every personnel decision through him.” - Anonymous NL Executive
- "The only person with a worse reputation than Jeff Wilpon in the game is David Samson." - Anonymous AL executive
- "[Mets GM Omar Minaya] isn’t the General Manager. Jeff Wilpon is. Omar’s the one out there to take the heat.” - Peter Gammons
- [Jeff Wilpon's] role in management, according to one official who worked for him, "is to act as president and CEO of second-guessing."
- "I always want Mets fans on my juries," said one noted defense attorney friend, a rabid Yankees fan. "They love losers, even three-time losers like some of my clients. And if Mets fans believe anything the Mets front office says, I can convince them to acquit anybody." - Denis Hamill
- I got a call the other day. They noted I had been a long term season ticket holder and asked if I was interested. I immediately exclaimed "I'm so sorry for the Wilpon Family". He asked what I meant. I told the guy if he looked in my file, he'd see a note to call me after both Fred and Jeff dropped dead, and not a day before. - Meanballer
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Batman Forever
post Apr 12 2012, 11:48 AM
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QUOTE (Cactus @ Apr 12 2012, 10:59 AM) *
if only they could send in a team to philly that's not decimated due to the owner's greed and stupidity.


Greed would be the Marlins owner Loria pocketing MLB money year over year to become the mot profitsble team in baseball despite very poor revenues. Greed would be Marlins owner Loria and his shady business dealings in getting municipal funds for the ballpark, with woefully inadequate parking. Greed would be Marlins owner Loria who only opened up his pocketbook for payroll when virtually forced by the commissioner.

Agreed?
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Cactus
post Apr 12 2012, 12:17 PM
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QUOTE (Batman Forever @ Apr 12 2012, 11:48 AM) *
Greed would be the Marlins owner Loria pocketing MLB money year over year to become the mot profitsble team in baseball despite very poor revenues. Greed would be Marlins owner Loria and his shady business dealings in getting municipal funds for the ballpark, with woefully inadequate parking. Greed would be Marlins owner Loria who only opened up his pocketbook for payroll when virtually forced by the commissioner.

Agreed?



besides the team having won two world series and the silliness of comparing a NY franchise to one in florida, the wilpons fleeced the public with tax free bonds on the stadium, pay no property tax via a loophole exemption, paid no tax on construction materials for the stadium, etc. etc., invested their money with someone who everyone (including them) knew was not legit because they became dependent on the returns and from experience from a prior ponzi scheme knew they couldn't do anything obvious that identified that they knew, drastically undersold the TV rights to his own cable network so that he could take a quarter billion dollar leveraged dividend, larded debt service onto the team at levels far and above what they paid for the team, and now spend 25 million less on payroll than these marlins. no offense, the wilpons are far worse.


--------------------
'-|-'

- "Mr. Jeff Wilpon has decided that he’s going to learn how to run a baseball team and take over at the end of the year… Run for the hills, boys. I think probably all those baseball people will bail… Jeff sits there by himself like he’s King Tut waiting for his camel.” - Nelson Doubleday
- "In today's regulatory environment, it's virtually impossible to violate rules." - Bernard Madoff, 10/20/07
The Washington Post decided not to cover Ralph Nader's presidential campaign because he had no chance of winning. Nader's response: "Then why are you covering the Nationals?"
- Asked by the Post about the younger Wilpon's job performance, Fred Wilpon said: "Excellent. Everybody knows ...that."
- "The word 'autonomy' is sometimes misused." - Jeff Wilpon
- "Let’s give Jeff Wilpon the benefit of the doubt here for a moment. Let’s say he is not short-tempered. Tone deaf. A credit seeker. An accountability deflector. A micro-manager. A second-guesser. A less-than-deep thinker. And bad at self-awareness. Fine, he’s none of these things. But here is the problem: This is his perception in the industry." - Joel Sherman
- “Jeff is the problem with the organization, and he is never going to realize that. He cannot help himself. He has to be involved. He will never hire anyone who will not let him have major input. He will not hire anyone who does not run every personnel decision through him.” - Anonymous NL Executive
- "The only person with a worse reputation than Jeff Wilpon in the game is David Samson." - Anonymous AL executive
- "[Mets GM Omar Minaya] isn’t the General Manager. Jeff Wilpon is. Omar’s the one out there to take the heat.” - Peter Gammons
- [Jeff Wilpon's] role in management, according to one official who worked for him, "is to act as president and CEO of second-guessing."
- "I always want Mets fans on my juries," said one noted defense attorney friend, a rabid Yankees fan. "They love losers, even three-time losers like some of my clients. And if Mets fans believe anything the Mets front office says, I can convince them to acquit anybody." - Denis Hamill
- I got a call the other day. They noted I had been a long term season ticket holder and asked if I was interested. I immediately exclaimed "I'm so sorry for the Wilpon Family". He asked what I meant. I told the guy if he looked in my file, he'd see a note to call me after both Fred and Jeff dropped dead, and not a day before. - Meanballer
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Batman Forever
post Apr 12 2012, 12:27 PM
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QUOTE (Cactus @ Apr 12 2012, 01:17 PM) *
besides the team having won two world series and the silliness of comparing a NY franchise to one in florida, the wilpons fleeced the public with tax free bonds on the stadium, pay no property tax via a loophole exemption, paid no tax on construction materials for the stadium, etc. etc., invested their money with someone who everyone (including them) knew was not legit, drastically undersold the TV rights to his own cable network so that he could take a quarter billion dollar leveraged dividend, larded debt service onto the team at levels far and above what they paid for the team, and now spend 25 million less on payroll than these marlins. no offense, the wilpons are far worse.


I do take offense, not standing up for an owner, but rather for reality and facts. The wilpons have spent I dont know close to a billion dollars more in payroll than the marlins the past say 10 or so years. The marlins owner purposefully pocketed mlb money earmarked for payroll. To turn a profit. That is greedy.

The wilpons invested, took the market risk and built their own tv network, the marlins did not.

It has been proven the wilpons did not take a quarter billion dollar dividend, yet you continue to trumpet that falsehood.

The mets owners did not violate any laws in their stadium construction, the marlins story is still unfolding and seems corrupt (time will tell).

You can accuse the mets owner of wrong doing in the madoff case, but none was proven even though you hope or wish they did however so hard you press that point which you can never prove. And your statements on underselling tv rights show how much you do not understand about the business of baseball.
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Cactus
post Apr 12 2012, 12:46 PM
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QUOTE (Batman Forever @ Apr 12 2012, 01:27 PM) *
I do take offense, not standing up for an owner, but rather for reality and facts. The wilpons have spent I dont know close to a billion dollars more in payroll than the marlins the past say 10 or so years. The marlins owner purposefully pocketed mlb money earmarked for payroll. To turn a profit. That is greedy.

The wilpons invested, took the market risk and built their own tv network, the marlins did not.

It has been proven the wilpons did not take a quarter billion dollar dividend, yet you continue to trumpet that falsehood.

The mets owners did not violate any laws in their stadium construction, the marlins story is still unfolding and seems corrupt (time will tell).

You can accuse the mets owner of wrong doing in the madoff case, but none was proven even though you hope or wish they did however so hard you press that point which you can never prove. And your statements on underselling tv rights show how much you do not understand about the business of baseball.


thank you for teaching me about the business of baseball. certainly my lack of knowledge shows through when the mets sold the tv rights to SNY for the same amount that the yankees got from MSG in the 90's. that could never be considered underselling the TV rights.

also, it was not proven the wilpons did not take a quarter billion dividend out of SNY, because they did. the "falsehood" you may be referring to was my mistake of initially pegging that amount to the total amount of excess financing for SNY, which was close to half a billion. again i will point you to the same link from last time:

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/newsst..._mets_finances/


--------------------
'-|-'

- "Mr. Jeff Wilpon has decided that he’s going to learn how to run a baseball team and take over at the end of the year… Run for the hills, boys. I think probably all those baseball people will bail… Jeff sits there by himself like he’s King Tut waiting for his camel.” - Nelson Doubleday
- "In today's regulatory environment, it's virtually impossible to violate rules." - Bernard Madoff, 10/20/07
The Washington Post decided not to cover Ralph Nader's presidential campaign because he had no chance of winning. Nader's response: "Then why are you covering the Nationals?"
- Asked by the Post about the younger Wilpon's job performance, Fred Wilpon said: "Excellent. Everybody knows ...that."
- "The word 'autonomy' is sometimes misused." - Jeff Wilpon
- "Let’s give Jeff Wilpon the benefit of the doubt here for a moment. Let’s say he is not short-tempered. Tone deaf. A credit seeker. An accountability deflector. A micro-manager. A second-guesser. A less-than-deep thinker. And bad at self-awareness. Fine, he’s none of these things. But here is the problem: This is his perception in the industry." - Joel Sherman
- “Jeff is the problem with the organization, and he is never going to realize that. He cannot help himself. He has to be involved. He will never hire anyone who will not let him have major input. He will not hire anyone who does not run every personnel decision through him.” - Anonymous NL Executive
- "The only person with a worse reputation than Jeff Wilpon in the game is David Samson." - Anonymous AL executive
- "[Mets GM Omar Minaya] isn’t the General Manager. Jeff Wilpon is. Omar’s the one out there to take the heat.” - Peter Gammons
- [Jeff Wilpon's] role in management, according to one official who worked for him, "is to act as president and CEO of second-guessing."
- "I always want Mets fans on my juries," said one noted defense attorney friend, a rabid Yankees fan. "They love losers, even three-time losers like some of my clients. And if Mets fans believe anything the Mets front office says, I can convince them to acquit anybody." - Denis Hamill
- I got a call the other day. They noted I had been a long term season ticket holder and asked if I was interested. I immediately exclaimed "I'm so sorry for the Wilpon Family". He asked what I meant. I told the guy if he looked in my file, he'd see a note to call me after both Fred and Jeff dropped dead, and not a day before. - Meanballer
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Batman Forever
post Apr 12 2012, 12:54 PM
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QUOTE (Cactus @ Apr 12 2012, 01:46 PM) *
thank you for teaching me about the business of baseball. certainly my lack of knowledge shows through when the mets sold the tv rights to SNY for the same amount that the yankees got from MSG in the 90's. that could never be considered underselling the TV rights.

also, it was not proven the wilpons did not take a quarter billion dividend out of SNY, because they did. the "falsehood" you may be referring to was my mistake of initially pegging that amount to the total amount of excess financing for SNY, which was close to half a billion. again i will point you to the same link from last time:

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/newsst..._mets_finances/


No I am not going to teach you about the business of baseball, but rather encourage you to learn more and come back to discuss. You don't get it clearly.

And once again, that $250 million dividend was actually $238 million split proportionally by ownership stake in sny. So you are only off by $100 million.
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Cactus
post Apr 12 2012, 01:16 PM
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QUOTE (Batman Forever @ Apr 12 2012, 01:54 PM) *
No I am not going to teach you about the business of baseball, but rather encourage you to learn more and come back to discuss. You don't get it clearly.

And once again, that $250 million dividend was actually $238 million split proportionally by ownership stake in sny. So you are only off by $100 million.



i greatly appreciate the lessons you have been able to impart, and I will strive to reach your level of knowledge.


--------------------
'-|-'

- "Mr. Jeff Wilpon has decided that he’s going to learn how to run a baseball team and take over at the end of the year… Run for the hills, boys. I think probably all those baseball people will bail… Jeff sits there by himself like he’s King Tut waiting for his camel.” - Nelson Doubleday
- "In today's regulatory environment, it's virtually impossible to violate rules." - Bernard Madoff, 10/20/07
The Washington Post decided not to cover Ralph Nader's presidential campaign because he had no chance of winning. Nader's response: "Then why are you covering the Nationals?"
- Asked by the Post about the younger Wilpon's job performance, Fred Wilpon said: "Excellent. Everybody knows ...that."
- "The word 'autonomy' is sometimes misused." - Jeff Wilpon
- "Let’s give Jeff Wilpon the benefit of the doubt here for a moment. Let’s say he is not short-tempered. Tone deaf. A credit seeker. An accountability deflector. A micro-manager. A second-guesser. A less-than-deep thinker. And bad at self-awareness. Fine, he’s none of these things. But here is the problem: This is his perception in the industry." - Joel Sherman
- “Jeff is the problem with the organization, and he is never going to realize that. He cannot help himself. He has to be involved. He will never hire anyone who will not let him have major input. He will not hire anyone who does not run every personnel decision through him.” - Anonymous NL Executive
- "The only person with a worse reputation than Jeff Wilpon in the game is David Samson." - Anonymous AL executive
- "[Mets GM Omar Minaya] isn’t the General Manager. Jeff Wilpon is. Omar’s the one out there to take the heat.” - Peter Gammons
- [Jeff Wilpon's] role in management, according to one official who worked for him, "is to act as president and CEO of second-guessing."
- "I always want Mets fans on my juries," said one noted defense attorney friend, a rabid Yankees fan. "They love losers, even three-time losers like some of my clients. And if Mets fans believe anything the Mets front office says, I can convince them to acquit anybody." - Denis Hamill
- I got a call the other day. They noted I had been a long term season ticket holder and asked if I was interested. I immediately exclaimed "I'm so sorry for the Wilpon Family". He asked what I meant. I told the guy if he looked in my file, he'd see a note to call me after both Fred and Jeff dropped dead, and not a day before. - Meanballer
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Batman Forever
post Apr 12 2012, 01:25 PM
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QUOTE (Cactus @ Apr 12 2012, 01:16 PM) *
i greatly appreciate the lessons you have been able to impart, and I will strive to reach your level of knowledge.


Glad you set the bar high. And I hope you learn more about the business of baseball. It will help you to articulate some of your positions here and in public with greater clarity.

This is from Forbes. Truefan79 mans up when he is erroneous, can you take that leap next?

Last summer Bank of America and JPMorgan Chase lent SportsNet New York, the New York Mets-controlled regional sports network, $450 million (Comcast and Time Warner are minority parnters in SNY). The baseball team and cable companies then promptly used more than half of the proceeds from the loan to pay themselves a dividend. The remainder of the money went towards refinancing existing SNY debt.

Note the word themselves - that means each partner took part of the dividend, so the wilpons share is about $150 million. Understand?
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Cactus
post Apr 12 2012, 01:50 PM
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QUOTE (Batman Forever @ Apr 12 2012, 01:25 PM) *
Glad you set the bar high. And I hope you learn more about the business of baseball. It will help you to articulate some of your positions here and in public with greater clarity.

This is from Forbes. Truefan79 mans up when he is erroneous, can you take that leap next?

Last summer Bank of America and JPMorgan Chase lent SportsNet New York, the New York Mets-controlled regional sports network, $450 million (Comcast and Time Warner are minority parnters in SNY). The baseball team and cable companies then promptly used more than half of the proceeds from the loan to pay themselves a dividend. The remainder of the money went towards refinancing existing SNY debt.

Note the word themselves - that means each partner took part of the dividend, so the wilpons share is about $150 million. Understand?



So a word in a Forbes article is what you are going to hang your hat on - the same magazine that you earlier discounted their valuations of baseball teams to suit a past argument. Even if you are right, and everything I've read, including the link I posted before, note that the Wilpons themselves took a 240 million dollar dividend as part of 450 million in excess debt added to SNY, the issue is that it was all made possible by the money that was diverted away from the baseball operations and into SNY by drastically underselling the rights fees, a deal which Wilpon had full control over. This was done so that they could take out a massive dividend, and it's actually completely irrelevant whether it went to Wilpon alone or Wilpon+his cronies, but hey if that's how you want to go after posters (which you've done to multiple posters, multiple times recently) and dig your grave at this site, that's fine with me.


--------------------
'-|-'

- "Mr. Jeff Wilpon has decided that he’s going to learn how to run a baseball team and take over at the end of the year… Run for the hills, boys. I think probably all those baseball people will bail… Jeff sits there by himself like he’s King Tut waiting for his camel.” - Nelson Doubleday
- "In today's regulatory environment, it's virtually impossible to violate rules." - Bernard Madoff, 10/20/07
The Washington Post decided not to cover Ralph Nader's presidential campaign because he had no chance of winning. Nader's response: "Then why are you covering the Nationals?"
- Asked by the Post about the younger Wilpon's job performance, Fred Wilpon said: "Excellent. Everybody knows ...that."
- "The word 'autonomy' is sometimes misused." - Jeff Wilpon
- "Let’s give Jeff Wilpon the benefit of the doubt here for a moment. Let’s say he is not short-tempered. Tone deaf. A credit seeker. An accountability deflector. A micro-manager. A second-guesser. A less-than-deep thinker. And bad at self-awareness. Fine, he’s none of these things. But here is the problem: This is his perception in the industry." - Joel Sherman
- “Jeff is the problem with the organization, and he is never going to realize that. He cannot help himself. He has to be involved. He will never hire anyone who will not let him have major input. He will not hire anyone who does not run every personnel decision through him.” - Anonymous NL Executive
- "The only person with a worse reputation than Jeff Wilpon in the game is David Samson." - Anonymous AL executive
- "[Mets GM Omar Minaya] isn’t the General Manager. Jeff Wilpon is. Omar’s the one out there to take the heat.” - Peter Gammons
- [Jeff Wilpon's] role in management, according to one official who worked for him, "is to act as president and CEO of second-guessing."
- "I always want Mets fans on my juries," said one noted defense attorney friend, a rabid Yankees fan. "They love losers, even three-time losers like some of my clients. And if Mets fans believe anything the Mets front office says, I can convince them to acquit anybody." - Denis Hamill
- I got a call the other day. They noted I had been a long term season ticket holder and asked if I was interested. I immediately exclaimed "I'm so sorry for the Wilpon Family". He asked what I meant. I told the guy if he looked in my file, he'd see a note to call me after both Fred and Jeff dropped dead, and not a day before. - Meanballer
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Batman Forever
post Apr 12 2012, 02:20 PM
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QUOTE (Cactus @ Apr 12 2012, 02:50 PM) *
So a word in a Forbes article is what you are going to hang your hat on - the same magazine that you earlier discounted their valuations of baseball teams to suit a past argument. Even if you are right, and everything I've read, including the link I posted before, note that the Wilpons themselves took a 240 million dollar dividend as part of 450 million in excess debt added to SNY, the issue is that it was all made possible by the money that was diverted away from the baseball operations and into SNY by drastically underselling the rights fees, a deal which Wilpon had full control over. This was done so that they could take out a massive dividend, and it's actually completely irrelevant whether it went to Wilpon alone or Wilpon+his cronies, but hey if that's how you want to go after posters (which you've done to multiple posters, multiple times recently) and dig your grave at this site, that's fine with me.


Gotcha, you can have your reality, I will stick to facts.
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Cactus
post Apr 12 2012, 02:25 PM
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QUOTE (Batman Forever @ Apr 12 2012, 02:20 PM) *
Gotcha, you can have your reality, I will stick to facts.


As much as you like to try, arguing semantics does not change what the Wilpon's behavior has been.


--------------------
'-|-'

- "Mr. Jeff Wilpon has decided that he’s going to learn how to run a baseball team and take over at the end of the year… Run for the hills, boys. I think probably all those baseball people will bail… Jeff sits there by himself like he’s King Tut waiting for his camel.” - Nelson Doubleday
- "In today's regulatory environment, it's virtually impossible to violate rules." - Bernard Madoff, 10/20/07
The Washington Post decided not to cover Ralph Nader's presidential campaign because he had no chance of winning. Nader's response: "Then why are you covering the Nationals?"
- Asked by the Post about the younger Wilpon's job performance, Fred Wilpon said: "Excellent. Everybody knows ...that."
- "The word 'autonomy' is sometimes misused." - Jeff Wilpon
- "Let’s give Jeff Wilpon the benefit of the doubt here for a moment. Let’s say he is not short-tempered. Tone deaf. A credit seeker. An accountability deflector. A micro-manager. A second-guesser. A less-than-deep thinker. And bad at self-awareness. Fine, he’s none of these things. But here is the problem: This is his perception in the industry." - Joel Sherman
- “Jeff is the problem with the organization, and he is never going to realize that. He cannot help himself. He has to be involved. He will never hire anyone who will not let him have major input. He will not hire anyone who does not run every personnel decision through him.” - Anonymous NL Executive
- "The only person with a worse reputation than Jeff Wilpon in the game is David Samson." - Anonymous AL executive
- "[Mets GM Omar Minaya] isn’t the General Manager. Jeff Wilpon is. Omar’s the one out there to take the heat.” - Peter Gammons
- [Jeff Wilpon's] role in management, according to one official who worked for him, "is to act as president and CEO of second-guessing."
- "I always want Mets fans on my juries," said one noted defense attorney friend, a rabid Yankees fan. "They love losers, even three-time losers like some of my clients. And if Mets fans believe anything the Mets front office says, I can convince them to acquit anybody." - Denis Hamill
- I got a call the other day. They noted I had been a long term season ticket holder and asked if I was interested. I immediately exclaimed "I'm so sorry for the Wilpon Family". He asked what I meant. I told the guy if he looked in my file, he'd see a note to call me after both Fred and Jeff dropped dead, and not a day before. - Meanballer
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Batman Forever
post Apr 12 2012, 02:29 PM
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QUOTE (Cactus @ Apr 12 2012, 02:25 PM) *
As much as you like to try, arguing semantics does not change what the Wilpon's behavior has been.


Semantics? No.

Facts, yes.

If the wilpons took a $150 million dividend from their own business, why do you say over and over it was $250 million?

Learning the business of baseball will ultimately change your tune on why owners run their billion dollar businesses the way they do. Hit the books my friend.
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Cactus
post Apr 12 2012, 05:37 PM
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QUOTE (Batman Forever @ Apr 12 2012, 02:29 PM) *
Semantics? No.

Facts, yes.

If the wilpons took a $150 million dividend from their own business, why do you say over and over it was $250 million?

Learning the business of baseball will ultimately change your tune on why owners run their billion dollar businesses the way they do. Hit the books my friend.



Arguing whether it was Wilpon or Wilpon+cronies who received the quarter billion dividend is, by definition, semantics. The broadcast deal was structured by the Wilpons to take operating income away from the baseball team and funnel it into SNY. I can read all the books I want, and you can argue all the semantics you want, but this fact won't change.


--------------------
'-|-'

- "Mr. Jeff Wilpon has decided that he’s going to learn how to run a baseball team and take over at the end of the year… Run for the hills, boys. I think probably all those baseball people will bail… Jeff sits there by himself like he’s King Tut waiting for his camel.” - Nelson Doubleday
- "In today's regulatory environment, it's virtually impossible to violate rules." - Bernard Madoff, 10/20/07
The Washington Post decided not to cover Ralph Nader's presidential campaign because he had no chance of winning. Nader's response: "Then why are you covering the Nationals?"
- Asked by the Post about the younger Wilpon's job performance, Fred Wilpon said: "Excellent. Everybody knows ...that."
- "The word 'autonomy' is sometimes misused." - Jeff Wilpon
- "Let’s give Jeff Wilpon the benefit of the doubt here for a moment. Let’s say he is not short-tempered. Tone deaf. A credit seeker. An accountability deflector. A micro-manager. A second-guesser. A less-than-deep thinker. And bad at self-awareness. Fine, he’s none of these things. But here is the problem: This is his perception in the industry." - Joel Sherman
- “Jeff is the problem with the organization, and he is never going to realize that. He cannot help himself. He has to be involved. He will never hire anyone who will not let him have major input. He will not hire anyone who does not run every personnel decision through him.” - Anonymous NL Executive
- "The only person with a worse reputation than Jeff Wilpon in the game is David Samson." - Anonymous AL executive
- "[Mets GM Omar Minaya] isn’t the General Manager. Jeff Wilpon is. Omar’s the one out there to take the heat.” - Peter Gammons
- [Jeff Wilpon's] role in management, according to one official who worked for him, "is to act as president and CEO of second-guessing."
- "I always want Mets fans on my juries," said one noted defense attorney friend, a rabid Yankees fan. "They love losers, even three-time losers like some of my clients. And if Mets fans believe anything the Mets front office says, I can convince them to acquit anybody." - Denis Hamill
- I got a call the other day. They noted I had been a long term season ticket holder and asked if I was interested. I immediately exclaimed "I'm so sorry for the Wilpon Family". He asked what I meant. I told the guy if he looked in my file, he'd see a note to call me after both Fred and Jeff dropped dead, and not a day before. - Meanballer
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Cactus
post Apr 12 2012, 05:44 PM
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QUOTE (Batman Forever @ Apr 12 2012, 12:27 PM) *
I do take offense, not standing up for an owner, but rather for reality and facts. The wilpons have spent I dont know close to a billion dollars more in payroll than the marlins the past say 10 or so years. The marlins owner purposefully pocketed mlb money earmarked for payroll. To turn a profit. That is greedy.

The wilpons invested, took the market risk and built their own tv network, the marlins did not.

It has been proven the wilpons did not take a quarter billion dollar dividend, yet you continue to trumpet that falsehood.

The mets owners did not violate any laws in their stadium construction, the marlins story is still unfolding and seems corrupt (time will tell).

You can accuse the mets owner of wrong doing in the madoff case, but none was proven even though you hope or wish they did however so hard you press that point which you can never prove. And your statements on underselling tv rights show how much you do not understand about the business of baseball.



I'd also like to point out here, the Marlins played by the rules of MLB on how to spend that revenue sharing money. They couldn't draw a fly in that old stadium, yet they've developed one of the best hitters and one of the best pitchers in all of the game, and have won as many world series in the past decade as the Mets have playoff appearances.

Much like the Yankees, who use their financial might to make the playoffs just about every year, but play by the rules of MLB.

What do the Mets do? Simply use the team like an ATM and only worry about playing meaningful games in September so that they can sell tickets throughout the year. And how can you point to their payroll when they weren't even spending their own money?


--------------------
'-|-'

- "Mr. Jeff Wilpon has decided that he’s going to learn how to run a baseball team and take over at the end of the year… Run for the hills, boys. I think probably all those baseball people will bail… Jeff sits there by himself like he’s King Tut waiting for his camel.” - Nelson Doubleday
- "In today's regulatory environment, it's virtually impossible to violate rules." - Bernard Madoff, 10/20/07
The Washington Post decided not to cover Ralph Nader's presidential campaign because he had no chance of winning. Nader's response: "Then why are you covering the Nationals?"
- Asked by the Post about the younger Wilpon's job performance, Fred Wilpon said: "Excellent. Everybody knows ...that."
- "The word 'autonomy' is sometimes misused." - Jeff Wilpon
- "Let’s give Jeff Wilpon the benefit of the doubt here for a moment. Let’s say he is not short-tempered. Tone deaf. A credit seeker. An accountability deflector. A micro-manager. A second-guesser. A less-than-deep thinker. And bad at self-awareness. Fine, he’s none of these things. But here is the problem: This is his perception in the industry." - Joel Sherman
- “Jeff is the problem with the organization, and he is never going to realize that. He cannot help himself. He has to be involved. He will never hire anyone who will not let him have major input. He will not hire anyone who does not run every personnel decision through him.” - Anonymous NL Executive
- "The only person with a worse reputation than Jeff Wilpon in the game is David Samson." - Anonymous AL executive
- "[Mets GM Omar Minaya] isn’t the General Manager. Jeff Wilpon is. Omar’s the one out there to take the heat.” - Peter Gammons
- [Jeff Wilpon's] role in management, according to one official who worked for him, "is to act as president and CEO of second-guessing."
- "I always want Mets fans on my juries," said one noted defense attorney friend, a rabid Yankees fan. "They love losers, even three-time losers like some of my clients. And if Mets fans believe anything the Mets front office says, I can convince them to acquit anybody." - Denis Hamill
- I got a call the other day. They noted I had been a long term season ticket holder and asked if I was interested. I immediately exclaimed "I'm so sorry for the Wilpon Family". He asked what I meant. I told the guy if he looked in my file, he'd see a note to call me after both Fred and Jeff dropped dead, and not a day before. - Meanballer
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Batman Forever
post Apr 12 2012, 05:47 PM
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QUOTE (Cactus @ Apr 12 2012, 06:37 PM) *
Arguing whether it was Wilpon or Wilpon+cronies who received the quarter billion dividend is, by definition, semantics. The broadcast deal was structured by the Wilpons to take operating income away from the baseball team and funnel it into SNY. I can read all the books I want, and you can argue all the semantics you want, but this fact won't change.


Ah, fuzzy math! What is a mere $100 million between friends?
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Cactus
post Apr 12 2012, 05:54 PM
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QUOTE (Batman Forever @ Apr 12 2012, 05:47 PM) *
Ah, fuzzy math! What is a mere $100 million between friends?


No math is necessary, because whether it goes to Wilpon's pockets or Wilpon's cronies, it's exactly the same to the Mets organization. Arguing the semantics of how the quarter billion dividend was or wasn't divided up doesn't change the fact that it's not available to the baseball operations because they got ripped off for the broadcast rights, specifically so that dividend could be taken.

But you keep sanctimoniously arguing those semantics. It really makes a whole lot of a difference here.


--------------------
'-|-'

- "Mr. Jeff Wilpon has decided that he’s going to learn how to run a baseball team and take over at the end of the year… Run for the hills, boys. I think probably all those baseball people will bail… Jeff sits there by himself like he’s King Tut waiting for his camel.” - Nelson Doubleday
- "In today's regulatory environment, it's virtually impossible to violate rules." - Bernard Madoff, 10/20/07
The Washington Post decided not to cover Ralph Nader's presidential campaign because he had no chance of winning. Nader's response: "Then why are you covering the Nationals?"
- Asked by the Post about the younger Wilpon's job performance, Fred Wilpon said: "Excellent. Everybody knows ...that."
- "The word 'autonomy' is sometimes misused." - Jeff Wilpon
- "Let’s give Jeff Wilpon the benefit of the doubt here for a moment. Let’s say he is not short-tempered. Tone deaf. A credit seeker. An accountability deflector. A micro-manager. A second-guesser. A less-than-deep thinker. And bad at self-awareness. Fine, he’s none of these things. But here is the problem: This is his perception in the industry." - Joel Sherman
- “Jeff is the problem with the organization, and he is never going to realize that. He cannot help himself. He has to be involved. He will never hire anyone who will not let him have major input. He will not hire anyone who does not run every personnel decision through him.” - Anonymous NL Executive
- "The only person with a worse reputation than Jeff Wilpon in the game is David Samson." - Anonymous AL executive
- "[Mets GM Omar Minaya] isn’t the General Manager. Jeff Wilpon is. Omar’s the one out there to take the heat.” - Peter Gammons
- [Jeff Wilpon's] role in management, according to one official who worked for him, "is to act as president and CEO of second-guessing."
- "I always want Mets fans on my juries," said one noted defense attorney friend, a rabid Yankees fan. "They love losers, even three-time losers like some of my clients. And if Mets fans believe anything the Mets front office says, I can convince them to acquit anybody." - Denis Hamill
- I got a call the other day. They noted I had been a long term season ticket holder and asked if I was interested. I immediately exclaimed "I'm so sorry for the Wilpon Family". He asked what I meant. I told the guy if he looked in my file, he'd see a note to call me after both Fred and Jeff dropped dead, and not a day before. - Meanballer
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RayL
post Apr 14 2012, 06:03 AM
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Cactus,

Why do you continue to argue with Fred and Jeff? As fans we know we can't win.....
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Batman Forever
post Apr 14 2012, 10:57 AM
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QUOTE (Cactus @ Apr 12 2012, 06:54 PM) *
No math is necessary, because whether it goes to Wilpon's pockets or Wilpon's cronies, it's exactly the same to the Mets organization. Arguing the semantics of how the quarter billion dividend was or wasn't divided up doesn't change the fact that it's not available to the baseball operations because they got ripped off for the broadcast rights, specifically so that dividend could be taken.

But you keep sanctimoniously arguing those semantics. It really makes a whole lot of a difference here.


Perhaps my favorite post of 2012. Bravo, Cactus.
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mikevailrules
post Apr 14 2012, 09:44 PM
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Wilpons Bad
Mets Good

another big win in philly. this is a team to root for!!!!


--------------------
Tell your statistics to shut up
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